So recently I engaged in some discussions relating to the term "darkly inclined" in the comments of a YouTube video discussing the term. That is a decent small goth channel which is pretty underrated and they def deserve some love.
My first comment was basically saying how the term is actually quite invalidating for a number of reasons and me being my slightly trolly self, I did meme the first negative comment that I got. [x]
There also were several positive comments I got in response to my original one and as of typing this, my original comment got 20 likes which is pretty nice.
Today I woke up to another reply to my comment which was a little more insightful and is basically what inspired me to write this entry. [x]
In short, the person was saying that I'm attempting to create a 'new definition of goth' when actually, I'm not and my personal definition is what has always been even before the goth movement.
Now I already have this on my thread op under the FAQ section, the definitions and history to goth but I will sum it up here as well. For anyone interested in seeing the full post, here. I've also stated actual definitions according to Merriam Webster in my other related entry about The Goth vs "Darkly Inclined" Debacle.
Alright then, lets dissect this.
Goth: 1, rock music marked by dark and morbid lyrics.
2, a fan or performer of goth. 3, a person who wears mostly black clothing, uses dark dramatic makeup, and often has dyed black hair.
First and foremost, do I agree with those definitions? Yes. Goth music is goth lol. *nod nod* And someone who mostly wears black, and dresses in a dark manor using makeup etc, can be considered goth. Again, yes. Am I aware that not anyone who wears all black is necessarily goth? Yes, of course but I digress as that's not the point of this entry.
Now what is my personal definition of goth summed up? Why hating the sun, smoking and drinking coffee of course. -South Park Goth kids.
I'm kidding of course. Though I love the goth kids lol. Anyways, goth is a conglomeration of various dark interests, ie, the music, the look, the aesthetic, the style, dark atmosphere and so on. When one has an interest in a fair amount of all that, then they are goth. In my opinion at least.
Now, is someone goth when they only like goth music in my opinion? No, because in my view, goth is what I just said, a conglomeration of several interests rather than just one. Same goes if someone only likes the fashion but not anything else related to it. Also not goth in my opinion.
However! I'm not going to tell someone they're 'not goth' for that because it's not my place and is incredibly invalidating and I personally, never want to do that to someone. It sucks feeling invalidated. What I feel matters most in terms of 'you are or you aren't' is if you're genuine. Genuine in your own interest and mindset that is. Related, The Goth Mindset.
Example, if someone wants to just 'dress goth for a day' or 'to get views on Tiktok' or whatever, that isn't genuine. If someone really loves the music and wants to identify as goth while not liking a single other thing related to it, then it's honestly their right to do that. Would I exclude them from anything? ******** no man. That'd be so wrong. Do I think less of them? Again, no. Is it wrong of me that I don't consider that to be goth? Again, no. We are entitled to our opinions and so long as we are being respectful, I see no harm in it.
I'd also like to mention that I've never met anyone who identifies like that. As in, only likes the music and nothing else dark that considers themself goth. I also don't even imagine that's too common either. I've said before that in most cases, when someone is into any dark aesthetic, they're more than likely going to have other, similar interests.
Now back to the comment that inspired this whole entry. So how they were saying 'I'm attempting to make a new definition of goth.' I do not see it that way as I've already stated. I've said several times before, goth has always been but not under that title. If anything, I see it the other way around and feel that the newer definition is where "being goth means only liking goth music." I've been into the subculture for a long time and have only been hearing that in the recent years. If I were to make a guess, I might say I only started hearing that for about 5 years now or so.
I am also not a fan of this newer definition as I feel it's a bit divisive. I'd also like to state that, it's possible this definition is far older and could have even started with the goth movement itself back in the late 70s, but I haven't heard of it. Lets consider that it is that old. Okay so would that change anything in my view? No. Because things grow and evolve over time. Take for example goth itself. Was pastel goth always a thing? It's possible but for the sake of my point lets say no. That being said, goth has grown to incorporate more things, more styles, more types of music and so on.
Does this make any of the newer things less valid because they weren't a part from the start? Absolutely not. Like I said, so long as things are genuine, they can be considered part of the whole. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to put a new spin on something that already exists. We are creative beings and after all, DIY and uniqueness is a huge aspect of the subculture over all.
Now back to the newer or at least 'newer definition to me personally.' My thoughts on "goth being only about music". I've said before that I don't like that because it is very invalidating and divisive and in a way it does still take the goth out of goth so to speak. Will I tell someone that it's invalid? In my own respectful way I do. Because again, there simply is more to goth than just music.
In closing, I think that people just need to be more mindful and respectful of what they say and how they treat others. Do I think everyone that goes by that definition is a goth Karen? Only if they are rude and dismissive about it. Like I said, we're all entitled to our own opinions so long as we are genuine and respectful. Fact is, if we feel we're goth for liking dark things then that's all it takes. Sure one should educate themselves with the history of the subculture but so long as they're genuine and respectful of others, it's all I could really ask of anyone.
Never tell anyone they are not what they claim to be when they're genuine. It's not up to you or I, it's up to them as it's their own life. We can have our opinions but unless asked, we should keep it to ourselves if it's something that could cause them to feel invalidated.
